Island Man

Joined

• started 138 topics
• posted 2,374 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Island Man

• 
  19

  Changing images

  by maisha in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  awhile ago i was mentioning how many of the images in watchtowers last year were containing addins with skulls, demon like faces and blatant illuminiti imagery.

  i recently went into the download sites again to grab some of those images and blow me away they have all been changed, cropped, edited, i can say that because i have some those original digital images from the magazines of last year, however the images currently on download sites are not the same some completely removed.

  one such image of jesus coming on an ass has been cropped, removing the name of the hidden name of the artist,,,, and altering a huge demon like face on the window.... has anyone else noticed this?..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  Sometimes I wonder who is more delusional - brainwashed JWs, or conspiracy-minded ex-JWs seeing subliminal images in Watchtower art.
• 
  56

  Question for atheists and nonbelievers

  by pressman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i profess to teach the truth to you all and get you to all to think and believe.

  believing in christ through his words and not through evil religious cults, like hoj and jw, can and will save you.

  do you all realize that every time you are victorious and receive something of value through your hard work and sweat, it was our holy god who blessed you.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  The OP doesn't seem genuine. It appears to be satire. It is just one unsubstantiated assertion after another with no attempt at logically convincing arguments whatsoever. It's rather pitiful if it's genuine, but genius if it's satire.
• 
  47

  Apostasy Trial on YouTube - Undercover spycam part 1

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for only the second time in internet history, a video recording of a secret jehovah's witness apostasy trial has been published online on the jwstruggle youtube channel.

  follow isaac's story here:.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9rh6qux0o&feature=youtu.be.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  This is not only the second time.
  Why are you overstating the facts, Ray. Using sensationalist, yellow-journalism tactics doesn't help our cause.

  Actually, I believe Ray Publisher is correct. Yes, there are multiple audio recordings of JCs online. But as far as I am aware this is only the second JC that is a video recording (Ray Publisher's JC being the first). Prove me wrong by posting a link to another video recording of a JC other than Ray Publisher's -- and I really don't mind you proving me wrong because I would love to see another video recorded JC!
• 
  233

  What is BELIEF ?

  by EdenOne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

  what exactly is "belief"?.

  is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  I would define belief as the involuntary judgment of an idea as being true based on certain thoughts or evidence that seem to point to it being true but without constituting absolute proof of its truthfulness. For when there is absolute proof it is no longer a belief but knowledge.

  Belief is basically like gambling. Take professional horse-racing gamblers as an example. They judge the odds of a particular horse winning based its track record, the jockey, it's age, past injuries, etc. None of these factors (when in the favor of the horse) allow them to have absolute knowledge that the horse will win. But it does serve to sway the mind to think that the horse most probably will win and so they bet on the horse. Well it's similar with belief. How easily the mind of the believer is convinced differs from person to person depending on their critical thinking skills and gullibility.

  Doubt or lack of certainty is an essential aspect of belief. The difference between belief and knowledge is lack of certainty. If there is no uncertainty then it is not belief but knowledge. If the lack of uncertainty is not due to sound absolute proof then its not knowledge but delusion.

  Anyone who says they know God exists is someone I see as being either dishonest or delusional. Even the bible does not require worshipers to know that God exists. Hebrews 11:6 says that a person has to believe that God exists to be favorably heard by him.
• 
  11

  February 15, 2015 Watchtower Tells Lies About Bible Jesus!

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  page 6, paragraph 7 dishonestly makes the following 2 claims about jesus:.

  "he never called undue attention to himself.

  instead, he directed all glory to his father.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  "...he warned JW's to reject "false stories ... apostate-driven lies and dishonesties"."

  So the "apostate-driven" qualifier gives JWs an excuse to not reject all lies, just those put forth by apostates. Meanwhile an elder can read this qualifier as a license to promulgate some lies - those published by Watchtower - to the congregation. lol.
• 
  11

  February 15, 2015 Watchtower Tells Lies About Bible Jesus!

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  page 6, paragraph 7 dishonestly makes the following 2 claims about jesus:.

  "he never called undue attention to himself.

  instead, he directed all glory to his father.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  jwleaks: In reading any sentence, statement, or phrase be careful not to miss the grammatical modifier.
  The use of the grammatical modifier "undue" changes the statement and structure of the sentence. The word "undue" can mean unwarranted or inappropriate or excessive or disproportionate.

  "He never called undue attention to himself."

  Good catch, jwleaks. But I'm willing to bet that if a JW publisher, in his speech, started giving Jesus the attention that the NT gives him, then the elders or other JWs would start telling him that he is drawing undue attention to Jesus. This shows that even from the JW perspective, the Jesus of the bible does, indeed, draw undue attention to himself.
• 
  22

  Getting JWs To Think By Using Their Own Tactics On Them.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been thinking that an effective way to expose the idiocy and vacuousness of jwism is to use it right back on them when they come to your door.

  say you're a fader and you've moved to the territory of a different circuit where the jws there don't know your jw background.

  when they come knocking at your door, just put on the jw mindset and pretend to yourself that the jws at the door are not jws but members of a "false religion.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  Thanks for all the responses.

  steve2: You credit JWs with the ability to dispassionately weigh up the householder's answers. Good luck!
  It might work if the JW has a reasonable level of flexibility in their thinking. Unfortunately, they will more than likely view anyone else speaking that way as being "arrogant and closed-minded".

  You're probably right, steve2. But the way I look at it: If blatant examples of JW reasoning can be used by a householder to reject the JW message without the JW noticing the error of JW reasoning then such a JW is willfully blind and deserves to be in the dysfunctional, dystopian Watchtower environment.
• 
  12

  A flaw in JW logic on sin and transmision

  by _Morpheus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the "special talk" this year was about family happiness.

  as always seems to be the case it was a bait and switch job since the talk had actually nothing to do with how to achive family happiness and everything to do with jw doctrine on why familys are unhappy.

  mine is unhappy because of jw doctrine but thats the implied irony in attending the sunday indoctrination i suppose.. that said, the speaker trotted out the oft used jw illistration of a dented bread pan to describe why and how sin was passed from one human (adam) to another (all of us).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  JWs like to use the genetic illustration to avoid confronting the true ugly reality of what the bible shows.

  JWs - Watchtower - love to turn a blind eye to what the bible says in preference for sugar-coated spin, when the bible says something unpalatable to Watchtower doctrine or modern ethics. A perfect example of this was found in last week's bible reading. An elder, commented on the passage that says a bad spirit from Jehovah terrified Saul. He basically denied what the text said by saying the text means something other than what it is saying, and the Watchtower explanation he gave clearly did not fit the context of what the text was saying. It was just so transparently dishonest - a willful denial of a plain scripture. That's one of things that infuriates me the most about JWism, Watchtower's penchant for willful dishonesty.

  The sin of Adam was actually passed on to all humans as a curse. Adam was essentially cursed by God when he sinned. Because all his offspring was in his loins at the time, the curse placed on Adam also came upon them. Another way of looking at it is that Adam didn't sin by himself. All of humankind sinned with him because all his offspring were still in his loins when he sinned and thus sinned with him. This is the same kind of reasoning the bible uses at Hebrews 7:9-10 to make the point that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek centuries before he was even conceived:

  (Hebrews 7:9, 10) . . .And, if I may use the expression, through Abraham even Le′vi who receives tithes has paid tithes, 10 for he was still in the loins of his forefather when Mel·chiz′e·dek met him.

  This argument also appears to be supported by what Romans 5:12 says:

  (Romans 5:12) . . .That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . .

  Notice this text says all men had sinned - past tense. How is that possible when there are future unborn generations who have not yet lived and sinned voluntarily? I think the text is essentially alluding to the fact that when Adam sinned all mankind - all unborn mankind yet to be conceived - sinned with him because of being in his loins at the time. So the bible seems to be suggesting that all mankind sinned with Adam and were cursed with Adam. Adam served as a proxy agent for all mankind just as Hebrews 7:9,10 suggests that Abraham served as a proxy agent for Levi, so that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek.

  Saying that all mankind was cursed by God because of the sin of Adam doesn't paint God in the rosy light the JWs want him painted. The word curse also has a ring of superstition to it. So to avoid these. The JWs use the term inherited sin. People know about inheriting traits from their parents so the term inherited and the use of the genetic illustration, give the teaching an air of science to it, dispelling much of the superstitious connotations. It also sort of distances God from it because now death is seen as something we inherited from Adam as opposed to a curse imposed on us by God.

  
  
  
• 
  22

  Getting JWs To Think By Using Their Own Tactics On Them.

  by Island Man in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been thinking that an effective way to expose the idiocy and vacuousness of jwism is to use it right back on them when they come to your door.

  say you're a fader and you've moved to the territory of a different circuit where the jws there don't know your jw background.

  when they come knocking at your door, just put on the jw mindset and pretend to yourself that the jws at the door are not jws but members of a "false religion.".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  I've been thinking that an effective way to expose the idiocy and vacuousness of JWism is to use it right back on them when they come to your door.

  Say you're a fader and you've moved to the territory of a different circuit where the JWs there don't know your JW background. When they come knocking at your door, just put on the JW mindset and pretend to yourself that the JWs at the door are not JWs but members of a "false religion."

  When they offer you literature, you tell them something JWish like: "Sorry I don't accept literature of other religions. I don't believe in interfaith."

  When the JW says it's all based on the bible you say: "Well, I know for a fact that my religion is based on the bible and I have the truth, and since Ephesians 4 says there is only one faith . . . your religion can't also be the truth and so I can't accept your religion's literature which contains false religious lies -- no offense."

  Let's say you tell them you're a Catholic and they start mentioning the Catholic pedophile scandal that was prominent in the news a few years ago. You respond by saying: "These are just satanic lies by our opposers. You can't believe everything you hear in the media."

  If they point out the unscriptural catholic teaching of purgatory you just tell them that catholics no longer believe that -- that the light of truth gets brighter with time just as Proverbs 4:18 says and so even if there might be some errors in current catholic teaching, God will refine the understanding of the church in time and so you will not be disloyal to God's catholic organization by leaving the religion just because of the errors of imperfect men of the past."

  If you say you're a catholic and one of the JWs at your door say they used to be a catholic, you can say: "You're an apostate! I don't want to hear anything you have to say! You're only here to draw me away from serving God as part of his earthly Catholic organization!"

  By now you get the drift. When you use JW reasoning to counter JWs efforts to preach to you, you either force the JWs to confront the idiocy of their own reasoning (if the particular JWs at the door are smart enough to see the similarity) or you force them to argue against their own reasoning in an effort to try to reach you. It's a lose-lose situation for them.
• 
  33

  This Year's Memorial

  by TD in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  perhaps i'm just getting older and crankier, but it really seems to me that the jw faith is deteriorating at an accelerated rate.. case in point: this year's memorial talk.

  it was one of the most incoherent messes i've ever heard.

  (and i've heard a lot of memorial talks over the last 50 years....).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Island Man

  "..the governing body watches the moon."

  They're werewolves in sheep's clothing. lol.